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Attendees & Representation

TSC Members and Project representatives should mark their attendance below

X = Present | P = Proxy  (Indicate below table with @name for @name

Prabhjot Singh Sethi Chairperson - ATS


Edward Ting - Cloudasoft


Sukhdev Kapur - Juniper


Darien Hirotsu - TachTech


Sanju Abraham - Stackpath





LF Staff: Casey Cain @Heather Krksey Daniel Pono Takamori

Others: Alexandre Levine Ian Rae Frederick Kautz @Aniket Daptari Jan Gutter Jared Linley @Johnny Yang Krzysztof Kajkowski Marek Chwal Martin Mailand @Rich Gold @Slava Struk @Paul McDonnell @Rajendra Yavatkar @Nabeel Asim @Anikeet Daptari


  • Start the Recording
  • Show the Antitrust Policy
  • Agenda Bashing, Roll Call, Action Items (5 Minutes)
  • General Topics
    • Raj Yavatkar, CTO of Juniper talks to Community
  • Any Other Topics


Raj Yavatkar, CTO of Juniper talks to Community

  • Raj speaks to the community and confirms that Juniper will be adding some additional development resources to support the Tungsten Fabric Community.
  • Prabhjot Singh Sethi talked about some of the challenges and where the community could use some help from Juniper
    • We are looking forward to improving 5G, extending the datapath, CNFs and SDN solutions.
    • Raj: I am excited about the direction of Tungsten Fabric and I want to help support those efforts.
    • Raj: I am also encouraging our engineers to contribute more to the upstream community under the guidance of Sukhdev. 
    • PSS: We have concerns about the code repos not having migrated and references to "Contrail" in the codebase. 
      • Most committers are from Juniper engineers that are not active in the community
      • Because of the lack of participation, we find bad code later and that snowballs the issues.  We need direct rapid feedback.
      • We also have an issue of getting changes merged into the code which makes us feel like an incubation project. 
  • Raj we are looking to accelerate our open source contributions to TF, ORAN, and Akraino.
  • Frederick Kautz suggested that the community would benefit from further engagement in CNTT and the OVP verification program and offered to help the community connect with them.
  • Sukhdev Kapur I am also working with Frederick Kautz to get TF into CNCF Testbed
  • Prabhjot Singh Sethi We also believe in taking a Cloud-Native approach is the next move for Tungsten Fabric.  We also want to add capabilities for service-mesh and extend our datapath support.
    • Some proposals are being developed in the community already.
    • Dynamic route propagation to containers that would extend service chaining to CNFs.
    • We are also working to address ONAP Integration with Tungsten Fabric.  We want carriers to see Tungsten Fabric as an alternative SDN Controller.
    • Collaboration with Juniper will help with these things better. 
      • Raj: I think that mapping the service-mesh and supporting it with Tungsten Fabric is very important.
      • To this point, Sukhdev has been the primary leader of our technical engagement with the project.  I am hiring 2 new engineers with a Kubernetes background to support the team.
      • I will also try to help support the new operator-framework. 
  • Prabhjot Singh Sethi raised concerns that some feel we are bound to consume TF downstream.  It has been 2+ years that the code repos have not migrated.  There are also many references to Junipers trademark, Contrail.  This makes it impossible for anyone other than Juniper to release a distribution without potentially being in a legal issue. 
    • Most Committers for Tungsten Fabric are Juniper Engineers.  We need them to show more participation. 
    • Because some things are not being discussed in the community, bad code is leaking in, which extends development cycles significantly
      • Some patches submitted on repos that have not migrated from Juniper are getting rejected citing non-technical reasons. 
        • ATS has a list of changes that they had to take downstream
    • Tungsten Fabric is still an Incubation project after 2+ years.  If we can address these issues, I think we can do better.  Even as a community.
  • Ian Rae I agree with Prabhjot. 
    • Ian believes that there are a number of people from the community would like to provide their feedback.  We would like to see Tungsten Fabric succeed but there are a few things that need to be addressed.
    • Casey took the action item and created a Community Support page for the broader community to discuss ways to support Tungsten Fabric.
    • Ian: If we can address some of these fundamental issues that we list here, I believe TF will be in a good position.
    • Ian:  There have been some questions about recent significant departures and what Juniper's vision of open source was.  Where is the community heading?
      • Raj: We are very committed to open source.   We are extending a new product manager to the team and want to support the Cloud Native integration.   We are also working in the ORAN community.
      • I believe the best way to contribute to open source is through engineering muscle.  I will be allocating additional resources to this project and I will take an active role in making sure that patches are getting merged. 
      • We are not eliminating our open source team.
      • Prabhjot Singh Sethi we need more community participation from Juniper engineers
      • The open source nature of Tungsten Fabric continues to be a business differentiator for us.
      • How can we address the trademark issues in the codebase?
        • Raj: I need to get back to you on that.
        • Heather: I can have Mike from the Linux Foundation help support you with those legal issues.
        • Sukhdev: I have a list of the outstanding issues and I am meeting with Raj tomorrow to discuss in further detail.
        • Heather: For legal issues, we have a team that can support you as Juniper and the Tungsten Fabric community.
      • Raj: Sukhdev will get some additional support to help address the community concerns brought forth.
      • I am happy to have a follow on meeting in 1 month or 6 weeks to see where we stand.
  • Edward Ting asks how we support smaller organizations that want to build products based on Tungsten Fabric.
  • Sanju Abraham The engagement model with OpenContrail did allow for some customers to build custom clouds, However, we lost momentum and use cases when we migrated from Contrail.
    • We are working with the LF to identify how we can get back some of those customers.
    • Raj: I think we could use some community Product Manager support.  Juniper has recently hired a Product Manager to support Tungsten Fabric. 
    • Casey talked about the need to identify some user stories, case studies, or deployment insights that we the LF could use to develop blogs and other marketing material to promote Tungsten Fabric. 
  • Prabhjot Singh Sethi the Project is currently blocked to progress to the next TAC lifecycle state by the repo migration, and release plan.
    • Casey explained some of the community issues that need to be solved to be considered for promotion to a TAC Project and why it's important to the community.

Misc Topics

Casey reminded everyone that the Developer & Testing Forum will be taking place from  to .  The schedule should be announced next week.

There is also an election for the TSC.

Additional Discussion

Sukhdev Kapur I am glad the community raised the issues they did today. We will be working on a number of changes.  

  • We will intend to create more transparency.  

During a discussion of the gerrit to github migration Alexandre Levineexplained that documentation will not have the same experience during a migration.

  • Github is currently not set up for fou our Jenkins.
  • Daniel Pono Takamori Right now we gate docs 2 human reviews.  Ideally, we can have the Jenkins test run and generate a preview.  Is gating the Jenkins report possible?
    • Daniel agreed to send Alex a list of requirements.

A brief discussion about the CLA process took place.  LF announced that they are working on adding the automated CLA process to GitHub.  There have been some historical issues with the CLA process, but they have been largely resolved at this point.

Frederick Kautz offered to provide some presentations on engaging with CNF and OVP communities and help the community with their integration efforts.

  • There was some general consensus that it would be great to have Frederick back to support the community with those discussions.
  • Darien Hirotsu asked if Fredrick say any efforts underway in Enterprise. 

Action items